Emily:
Unless you can invoke privilege, unless it's your spouse or your lawyer or your psychiatrist, do not talk to anyone because I've also had people turn against my clients, call up the state and be like, Ooh, he told me these things about, and it's like just, no, no, no, no, no, no. We are the arms attorneys today. We are talking about giving your seen statement after you've been involved in a self-defense incident. Stick around. We're going to talk about the two ways you should be talking to the police. And finally, even if you don't how you might have multiple statements floating around out there in the ether that could hurt you. But before we get started, show your support for the Second Amendment by hitting the like button.
Richard:
And this was a popular request from some folks. We have made some offhand remarks about scene statement, Hey, what does that thing mean? And we mean something really, really specific. Typically when we're talking about scene statements, this is a short statement that you would make to the police following a critical incident. And for purposes of this discussion, we're going to just assume somebody else has called 9 1 1, the scene is safe, all these other things. And we're really just talking about, Hey, the cops just arrived on scene following a self-defense incident. They're there asking you questions. What do you say to them? And there's really only two paths here that you should be going down.
Emily:
Sure. So I think, well, here's what I'll say, yes, two paths and will just generally we're going to talk about it, no statement or statement with a lawyer. But I'll tell you statement with a lawyer is a choose your own adventure of how that goes down. I have had people do everything from I thought I was going to die when he attacked me. And I'm not saying nothing else to a full law enforcement style scene walkthrough
And everything in the middle. And here's the thing, if there was just one easy answer we could give you on this video right now, we wouldn't have jobs anymore. The reason why attorneys are still not replaced by AI is because we look at the situation, not yet, not yet. We look at the exact facts as they occur. We evaluate your demeanor. We use the knowledge we have about that law enforcement body, those prosecutors, this jury pool, and we decide exactly how much or how little information that you should be giving. It is highly technical, highly specific to exactly what happened to you, but we do have some general points that you should be thinking about in advance.
Richard:
Yeah. So let's go down this first path of no statement to the police. And you might see these on the shut, what up Fridays? Or you see this stuff on social media. If you don't speak to the police, I'll tell you that that puts you in a better position than probably 99% of people.
Emily:
Yes.
Richard:
So not talking to the cops, completely viable option. And I think we both have different takes on the way you do it. So I say we talk about that, but not talking to the cops. That's okay. That is completely all right. Oh yeah. And if you do that, you're going to be okay. You're going to be so much better off than if you just spilled your guts.
Emily:
Yes. I have gotten a murder acquittal on someone who completely refused a scene statement, basically like I'm not talking to you until I talked to my lawyer and did not say a word got drug down to the homicide floor at HPD did not say a word. And so the very first time a story came out was sitting on the stand and the jury did not care one bit, that he didn't give a statement on the scene. Like, yeah, I get it. You just killed someone that's really scary and that there are going to be consequences. And it doesn't mean you're guilty that you want to talk to a lawyer. So it's
Richard:
Okay. We were talking about this. What's your kind of canned response if you have one?
Emily:
Again, this is, if you can articulate this without sounding like a robot who's memorized it is when they're like, Hey, tell me what happened, officer. I have just had one of the worst days of my life and I want to cooperate, but I will not speak to you until I've had a chance to talk to an attorney.
Richard:
And I think what's good about that, you kind of think it makes you very, very sympathetic.
Emily:
Very sympathetic,
Richard:
But also you're being firm with them. Hey, it sounds like I'm going to cooperate, but I need my attorney.
Emily:
I want to help. But I know I just killed someone even though I was justified. I know that there are consequences to this, and this is like, it's the worst thing that's ever happened to me probably. Right?
Richard:
And my take on it, it's a little more simplified. I'll say. It doesn't have all the pros of Emily, but there is maybe a different pro to it. I like to say I don't answer questions without an attorney.
Emily:
Fine, simple,
Richard:
Fine, simple, easy to remember. And why do I like that? Because any follow-up can be answered with, I don't answer questions without an attorney and so's put that on the loop. You just can put it on a loop. And that's why I think you lose, think about these critical incidents. You lose fine motor skills, you lose the ability to articulate things. That little loop I think can be very effective. And then, all right, so how does not talking, we have maybe some canned responses. Maybe it fits in your circumstances, maybe it doesn't always speak to a lawyer, but talking to a lawyer and having the lawyer tell you exactly what to say at that point, that's probably the second way. With the input of an attorney, maybe you say something.
Emily:
Yes. And I know there are a lot of people who are like, how do I get ahold of that attorney at two in the morning? And the only answer I can give you is there are legal defense programs out there for self-defense. Do your research, make sure you're not being sent to a critical response team call center where you're not actually going to talk to the attorney until you get arrested. Make sure that you are signing and several do this. Make sure you are signing up for one that gets you directly to an attorney. Otherwise, you just got to have a friend or a family member who is a criminal defense attorney who can help you out. Mean, mean probably some attorneys who can take a micro retainer and give you their phone number and say, alright, you use my cell phone if you need it. So I mean, that's something you could maybe
Richard:
Design
Emily:
Your own program
Richard:
Or someone, or you option one until you have a time to get an attorney.
Emily:
Yeah, yeah. Or you opt it. Yeah, exactly. But that's just for those people who are like, how do I even get one? The only way I know is to look for those legal defense plans.
Richard:
And I'll say, all right, advice of an attorney. Why do we say that? I can tell you, having done hundreds of these things, no two situations have been the same. They're all so stinking dynamic. I've had clients who have zero emotional control. And guess what? I've made them go to option one. Even though they had the advice of an attorney, I had to have this person shut down because they couldn't control themselves. I've had retired police who this was just like, I don't know, this is like they hit a speed bump in the road and they had full control and were able to articulate. And in that situation, based on our conversation, this was specific to this case, I was comfortable with them repeating everything they told me to. The police
Emily:
Don't go outside those bounds, but you can tell 'em what you told me.
Richard:
And then there's some things in the middle where it's, Hey, I want to help as much as I can, but I need to speak to my attorney first. I had to defend myself and I'm willing to cooperate, but I need to do this. I need to talk to my attorney first. That's something more in the middle.
Emily:
Yeah. I mean, just to give you an idea, if I got involved in a self-defense incident, I would not talk to the police until I called Richard or until I called Edwin, because it is it a wild ride. And I know that I wouldn't be able to parse it out in my own head under those emotions and the adrenaline and everything. So I mean, it really is like if you're like, eh, I could figure it out. I mean, I'll tell you, maybe you can. I don't think I could figure it out.
Richard:
Well, and then what does the attorney do? Well, the attorney, one thing, everything you share with them is privileged and confidential. Assuming you're doing it without anybody else around you intend the communication to remain private. Well, guess what? The attorney is kind of this barrier between you and law enforcement. They get to decide, do I disclose material? Do I not disclose material? How do I disclose it? When do I disclose it? And the things that the attorney says can't be used against the suspect. And so they're a great gatekeeper, they're a great insulator. And I'll say, there's some tricks that attorneys can pool that can increase the odds of you maybe not getting charged with a crime, or let's say you get charged with a crime, maybe it reduces the risks of getting found guilty.
Emily:
Yeah. So I mean, I'll tell you something, and this isn't a trick, but I know you've got one that I really like. I want to talk. But for me personally, even if I'm not confident that we have gotten a full opportunity to go through all of the facts, there are times where I might not be confident that you fully remember the facts because of all of the brain science that happens in these incidents. But you need an attorney to say, I know what I need to get established right there on the scene so that you get acquitted at trial. I know that. And I'm going to make sure, I mean, you've done this too. I'm sure there are times where someone tells me a really long story, and before police get there, I'm like, 1, 2, 3,
Richard:
Write it down. That's exactly right.
Emily:
Yep. Those are your three points. Don't veer outside that answer every question you can with one of these three things, and then otherwise shut down. And that's good. I guess that's an attorney trick, but that's good. And then you've got a really good one.
Richard:
Well, we were just talking about this before. A lot of times, let's say you've been involved in a critical incident, it's three in the morning. Hey, maybe you can't get an attorney out there, maybe you don't have an attorney or you don't know who to call just yet. I'll say in a lot of instances, the police will say, okay, we understand we're law enforcement when we're involved in incidents, we get an opportunity to speak to a lawyer. We understand why you would want to speak to a lawyer.
Emily:
Do they say that? I've never had one say that. I've had it happen once before and then on the stand,
Richard:
But it was a retired
Emily:
Cop dig in and they're just,
Richard:
Well, and I'll say, but a lot of times they'll give you a card and say, okay, have your attorney call me. I'm going to make a decision in a week. And if I don't hear from you, you want to get your side of the story. I mean, they'll use their tricks at that point. But it's one of those things where an attorney reaches out and says, Hey, guess what? We're not going to do an in-person interview. I've only had an in-person interview go, well, one time. Have you had in-person interviews go? Well,
Emily:
I mean, they're always used against you is the thing. But I mean, I would say, yeah, we did a scene walkthrough in Montgomery County
Richard:
Recently. Not the Home Depot one was it?
Emily:
No, no. This was the crazy neighbor one that went really, really well. But there was everything working in our favor. So it is rare.
Richard:
It's really rare. But standard training from detectives, we want to get a second statement out of this person or multiple statements out of this person. We want to interrogate
Emily:
Them. Why catch 'em in their lies?
Richard:
Right. Well, and I'll say 99% of the time, these after incident interviews used against you, never used for you. So there's a big incentive for attorneys to say, Hey, guess what? We're not going to do this. But I'll just say, if we're going to call it an attorney trick saying, Hey, guess what? Send me your questions in writing and we'll see if we can respond to you. I'll say, generally they're kind of lazy and they don't write out their questions,
Emily:
And that's not what they're looking for. They don't want something in writing. They want something they can't use against you. And here's something I'll just, I know the video's probably running along now, but I just will say this because it's very annoying. If you give a bang up stellar, amazing statement and they still want to prosecute you, they are not going to introduce that statement at trial. And
Richard:
Again,
Emily:
Everyone's evidentiary rules are different. Check your state's law. However, in Texas, if the state doesn't admit that, we don't get to admit it unless there are very specific
Richard:
Exceptions. They open the door, they mislead the jury.
Emily:
So if you do a really, really good job and I'm like, man, I don't even want to put him up on the stand. He knocked it out of the park with that statement. They're not going to let the jury see it. Which is just one of those dirty things the government is allowed to do. Again, in Texas in most states, check your state's evidentiary rules. But I mean, it really is. I mean, if they're helping on getting you, they're going to use every dirty trick in the book.
Richard:
Yeah. And I think to our last, Hey, maybe you have actual statements floating out there that you made. Maybe you do know, but maybe you don't know that they're floating out there and it's really important, and this is what the police do. Alright, you, maybe you made a nine one one call statement. Talk to the patrol officer statement, his boss statement, detective statement. Alright, you got four statements out here. Here's the other source. If we don't do any of that, we follow option one, we shut down. Don't talk to you without a lawyer. Great. Maybe we've eliminated those options, but I think a lot of people neglect to think about brain cameras, surveillance systems posting on social media, these other things where, alright, well maybe now you do have inconsistencies floating out there.
Emily:
Oh gosh, yes. I mean the audio that has come from doorbell cameras that is so damaging to my case. I can't even tell you. So think about things like that. Do not go post on social media. Don't go talk to anyone
Richard:
Who, yeah, talking to other people. I didn't even mention that one.
Emily:
Unless you can invoke privilege, unless it's your spouse or your lawyer or your psychiatrist. Do not talk to anyone. Because I've also had people turn against my clients, call up the state and be like, Ooh, he told me these things about, and it's like, just know. No, no, no, no,
Richard:
No. Well, and then have you seen that Super Orwellian program where ring cameras can opt into their neighborhood watch and the police department has access to all the feeds?
Emily:
Oh, don't do that. Yeah, I haven't seen that. Oh, don't
Richard:
Do that. Horrible. It's horrible. It's horrible. But I mean, this is, I think another thing to remember when you're speaking to your attorney, if you think that there might be material out there, I mean no, don't hold back with your attorney. Let 'em know everything that goes into the decision making shit end shit out as they say. Right? Bad information, bad advice. So if you have recordings of this, if you have posted on social media, it's important to tell your attorney about that stuff so that they can, let's say you decide to formulate a statement. Well, if you've got something else floating out there, we're going to need to know about it. We've got to make sure everything looks consistent. So option one, shut it down. I don't speak to, don't answer questions without an attorney. Option two, communicate through an attorney on the advice of an attorney. That's what you need to do. But we hope you enjoy this discussion. If you did, consider subscribing, hitting that like button and help us fight the anti two a algorithm by sharing this video
Emily:
And please question, comment for us below until next time where the arms attorneys.
Credit: Armed Attorneys