John:
Hi everybody. Welcome to Active Self-Protection Extra here today in corporate headquarters worldwide. If you came here from the main channel, you watched us bang our heads against the wall of a Jacksonville officer who negligently shot a dude taking a gun off of him.
Neil:
Yeah, that was a rough one.
John:
It sucked. And we promised you that we would show you how to do this in a safer manner. So Neil and I are here doing just that. Palm pepper spray is next generation OC spray. It's hot, hot at 1.4% major cap OIDs and it's modular design means you can customize it exactly to you three different setups, lots of different color combinations. You can make it exactly as you'd like. And the flip top safety prevents accidental discharges. It's 10 to 12 foot range and 25 half second blasts. Make sure that you can keep that long range. I poke at long range. I trust Palm OC and I recommend it for everyone for self-defense. If on the other hand you did not watch that, the link is in the description, go watch that and you can see why we were banging our head against the wall. Where's your pistol? At my side. Okay. Put your hands on top of you before.
Neil:
I appreciate it, man being shit. You okay?
John:
Put the gun down. Down. You okay? Nope. We're not going to talk on this one about all of the leading up to it parts. We are merely going to talk about the actual disarm here, the actual taking of a gun off somebody else. And we get to do this occasionally on the range
Neil:
We do. Absolutely. And it's something that from time to time it's just not law enforcement that has to do that. We have to do that once in a while as an instructor in a class. If you're in a car accident and you show up at the hospital unconscious, somebody's going to have to take your gun off of you. It's going to happen. And so this is training for all of us and we should really pay attention here.
John:
I'm using a blue gun. Neil's gun has a barrel block in it. So these are safe training aids right now. However, in this video we are going to show where some of our problems are, but also how not to point guns at people when you have to take a gun off somebody.
Neil:
I think it's really smart and this is super important and folks, if you're watching, please watch this. The big thing I'll say is take your time. Take your time. This is not something that has to happen in that
John:
Fast. And the officer in Jacksonville did take her time. She just made a really egregious mistake and probably the number one thing that she did is, so now Neil's is upfront here, his was over on the strong side. But listen, some people are like, well thank God it was on the strong side so that it didn't go down the middle of him. Look, this injury is not any better, let's be honest. We had somebody in one of our classes who had had something like that happen to them on a range and streak the bullet down the outside of 'em. They couldn't walk right for two years.
Neil:
When they came to our class, they told us it had been two years, two years since they had been in a class because they couldn't walk, right?
John:
So from the private citizen perspective, if somebody had to take a gun off me and it's upfront like this, which a lot more and more people are carrying up front, certainly we do, is that when I've got my hands up like this, if he's going to take the gun off me, I am going to tell him, officer, as I'm doing that, I'm going to kick my hips forward while he takes the gun off. Now I want you to see, you might be able to barely see it here. I have less tactical fluff than I used to. Okay,
Neil:
That's covered
John:
However. So then what I'm doing with that is you see it's still kind of tucked underneath just a little bit. I kind of wear it under the 300th parallel there so I can get ahold of it really well. But when I push my hips out, it kicks the gun away from me a little bit so that he can get ahold of it. And also then the barrel's not pointed at me. So if I kick that, if I'm here and I go, okay, fine, and I'm going to kick my hips forward, that presents the gun a little bit easier for him. Now the interesting thing here is if he's going to take it off of me, he probably needs to do that or it's best and easiest for him to do that with his left hand because it's on my left side. Because if he goes with his right hand and as he starts showing that look what he has to do, his hand tucks between my body and the gun
And that's going to be hard. So he's going to probably come from the outside so that he can use his fingers, get ahold of that with the left hand. But as I kicked out, then he is noticing, I want you to see the finger here. His finger is high and in register and then he pulls that gun and he doesn't point it at me while he takes it out of my holster and off it goes. That's as simple as that. We would never let somebody else put a gun in our holster. No. So if he says, I'm going to put it back, no sir, put it on the seat of my car, put it on the ground. I ain't letting somebody else put a gun and an inside the waistband holster on me. I don't care what's going on
Neil:
In my world. No, it's going to be a bad day.
John:
It's going to be a, if somebody tries to super bad day. So I would take that back. I have the gun again, blue gun for me here again and I'm going to safely put it away. Now, if I were to go, and I'm going to move this around so that it is on my strong side, okay, go over here, move this away. All you weirdos carrying guns, strong side. I haven't done that in, oh my gosh, it's been almost 10 years since I carried. Looks weird. It looks side, it's weird. It's not wrong though. It's just weird.
Neil:
It's kind of wrong.
John:
It's weird.
Neil:
Carry where you want to carry. I don't care.
John:
Alright. Alright, so now I have my gun strong side. Big thing here again, she comes up and sees this. She starts playing with this and then dives in with what was her left hand again. So that's why this holsters here. And then as she comes out, she points the gun at him and shoots him and look where my finger goes immediately like that because it's stuffed inside there. Okay? So instead, couple things. If I'm here and I'm doing this and he pulls that shirt up, I'm going to go, officer, I'm going to kick this hip out a little bit for you.
Neil:
Okay,
John:
So that gives you a little bit of purchase there.
Neil:
Then I'm going to come back to here.
John:
Look at what he did. He went around the backside so that his hand is in the same position that it would be. I'm going to, let's turn. So then that way they can see. So again, I'm here, kicked that hip out a little to the side and then that leaves the gun clearing my body. And then as the officer notice again, he's using his left hand, but look at what happened with his finger. Its as easy and as simple as that. Okay? So take your time.
Neil:
There's no rush. Now, one thing we saw in that video, I think that guy had pretty good retention.
John:
His hol
Neil:
Holster was pretty tight. So when she jerked it out, she had to, but she kind of got up close and personal with her other hand inside his waistband. And you saw when I did that with John, first off, I'm literally inside your pants, which is a little awkward to begin with. Well, not for us, but it's weird for most folks. But that trigger finger, it slides into the wrong place. It's kind of like a circle holster at that point. Your trigger finger's in the wrong place
John:
In a wrong spot. Now I'm going to show you guys again this. So you've seen this holster in this holster is my everyday carry holster. This particular one is a dark star gear. It's irrelevant to this. I like pull the dot loops. Okay? The hotness now is the DCC monoblock or the DCC clips that you're using those. So Neil's using those, we'll show you what those do in just a minute. But for me, and I've had this happen, I've had an officer take a gun off of me in this manner and I've shown him, Hey officer, if you want to take that off, I can unsnap those two loops and then you can pull the entire thing out and you don't even have to uncover the trigger guard. And that to me is a really good thing. Now what are you talking about? CV snaps right here. So I won't touch 'em without permission.
See those snaps, if you pull 'em from the top to the bottom, they'll come right off. And I've had officers, why don't you do that? And again, all I got to do here, blink, blink, and now the entire thing, now I have in the past, then look, I can grab it with my support hand and pull the entire thing out. Now, of course it's not going to do that because they don't. We're on camera, it's strong side. And now I can hand him the whole thing and the gun never came out. That's a really useful tool. That's one of the reasons I like that. Now Neil, if you had your monoblock, you can do the same thing.
Neil:
We can do the exact same thing, but we need to talk through it. And if he had told her, Hey, I've got pretty good retention and I've got a clip on there, you just take the clip and snap it out. The whole thing will come out. You can get ahold of the holster and everything. And I talk about this all the time in classes and whenever I talk to somebody at the end of the day, my gun doesn't come out of the holster to go in a safe. That's why I look for a safe big enough to keep the holster on there because now I'm not administratively handling a gun in my bedroom unless I absolutely have to. That gun stays in the holster.
John:
My carry gun sits like this in my quick access, safe inside of its holster. Mind you. So if I'm going to do that to Neil, okay, lemme put this down if it's upfront instead of on the side. So I would prefer to be on his side here. I don't want to come all the way from around the back like this. I want to be able to see what I'm doing. Alright, so officers, if I'm disarming somebody who's upfront and it's a right-handed holster, I'm going to approach him on his right side and I'm going to say, Hey, we're going to take this real slow. We both want to be safe. And that person is going to say, thank you so much and I don't want to get shot today.
I know and I want you to be safe too. So if he puts his hands up so that I can do that, great, I'm going to get this. And again, I am going to come underneath so that I've got a hold of that outside and I'm going to just tipple check, would you kick your hips forward a little for me? And I asked him, you notice that just kick your hip forward a little bit. Great. And now that comes out and it came away from him and it was pointing in his safe direction. And my finger is very, very high and I have positive control. And I go, thank you so much. And I go off and do my thing. Okay? Simple as that. Again, I would never put a gun on somebody. I have a gun. You have a gun.
And then that way that gun is safely and carefully taken off of somebody strong side, same thing. Now again, instead of here if it was on the strong side, I don't want to be on the side of him. Now I got to do this weird thing. And that's part of the problem is then she was ditching through here because trying to do this is weird. So instead I come behind him, and now if he turns this way and I'm behind him, now my hand is in a natural position to take that gun off of him from the strong side. Take your time, do this right?
Neil:
Don't rush. This isn't a draw to first shot emergency kind of thing. This is, we're trying to be safe. So if we're trying to be safe, let's be safe. And if you are the ER nurse that has to do this, then pay attention to what we're talking about because you may have to do this to an unconscious person as well. And you sure shoot. Sure. Don't want to shoot somebody in the er.
John:
Couple things if he's carrying a gun in his pocket, alright, we don't have a pocket carry gun right now, so I'm not going to do that on this one. But again, take your time. Take your time and ask some questions. So if he says, yeah, I've got a gun in my right front pocket. Cool. Is there anything else in that pocket? Oh yeah, my keys are in the pocket and some AKA and three wethers originals. Man. Okay, we got problems there.
Neil:
I'm a grandpa.
John:
Yeah. Alright,
Neil:
Grandpas
John:
Or is it in a holster or is it just in your pocket loose? These are important questions to ask, right? So he goes, no, it's a J frame revolver and it's just loose in my pocket. Cool. I'm going to reach into your pocket and I'm going to take possession of that gun. So what am I going to do there? Man? I'm being so careful feeling for a trigger in that instance. And in that instance, again, I'm not going to try to get into his front pocket from the side. I'm going to set to the back a little bit so that I'm in a more natural place to reach into that pocket. And I'm going to be very careful. And if it is in a holster and it should be in a fricking holster, if it's in your pocket, then I'm going to try to pull that holster in the gun out together.
Neil:
And again, going back to, I think the most important thing to think about is your trigger finger as you're taking someone else's gun. And another great thing to think about is just potentially just make sure your trigger finger is underneath and you just have a hold here if you must do that. But if you're even doing it the other way, but if your trigger finger stays underneath the trigger guard rather than the high and in register move that we always teach the whole thing on that because now you can't pull the trigger if you know where your trigger finger is.
John:
This is how you don't point a gun at somebody when you take it off of them if you have to. You always are aware of your trigger finger and you do so safely and take your time. This is important stuff.
Neil:
It is.
Credit: John and Neil, Active Self Protection Extra