Richard:
We wake up tomorrow, been signed into law, already been challenged in the courts. It's in place. We have national reciprocity. Jump in your RV drive all over the United States. See the beautiful country. What is a huge mistake because even with states with reciprocity, we see some problems.
Emily:
Yes. So we are the armed attorneys Today. We are talking about the very first Second Amendment policy decision to come from the Trump transition team. In fact, from President Donald Trump himself. Stick around. We're going to talk about what that is, what the legal backing for it is, and how we anticipate the left is already losing their minds and going to challenge it. But before we get started, show your support for the Second Amendment by hitting the like button.
Richard:
And so we have a very short clip here. Talk with the president and president-elect. I don't know. They need to come up with a phrase for both of those things. It's only happened
Emily:
Twice. President squared Trump.
Richard:
Yes. But let's check out this clip
President Donald J. Trump:
Seventh. I will protect the right of self-defense everywhere. It is under siege, and I will sign concealed carry reciprocity. Your second amendment does not end at the state line.
Emily:
Okay, so first of all, do you think he watches our channel? Because we just asked him for that.
Richard:
Just
Emily:
Asked.
Richard:
Well, we make the list and it just shows up
Emily:
Uncle Donald on Friday. We could have that. So thank you.
Richard:
And so we've received this question from a lot of folks. I bet a lot of you initiated know what we mean when we say reciprocity. But when we talk about national reciprocity, what folks are really saying is, Hey, my state issues a license or permit to carry a handgun. Maybe some other states recognize this license or permit, but not all of it. We call these folks the usual offenders. Think of the left coast, the state of Illinois, the northeast. A lot of these folks say, Hey, guess what? We're only going to recognize licenses and permits issued in our states. We're not going to recognize anybody else's permit. And that makes the world a less safe place.
Emily:
It does. So just so you know what's happening right now, what happens is we have agreements between states and those could come on just a case by case basis. So if I'm in the state of, I'm just picking one out randomly. I'm the state of Nevada, and I'm going to look at every single other state's carry license, and I'm going to decide which ones I want to either unilaterally grant reciprocity to in my state of Nevada, or I want to enter into some agreement that we recognize one another's licenses. There are also states such as now Texas. Thank you Richard.
Richard:
Sure.
Emily:
Thank you Richard for that bill. I think such as now, Texas, which says, Hey, look, if you issue a handgun license, we recognize all of them. We want Y all. Am I losing my mind? Didn't you do that last session?
Richard:
We filed it. It didn't pass, but I'll take
Emily:
It. Didn't pass. Okay. All right. Well we'll file it again this session. So we have those two things going on here, and then we have another group of states which basically say, go right to hell. We're not recognizing anybody's licenses. You don't get to carry here unless you have your state, our state's license, normally your reservoir state. And we have decided in our moral superiority, who needs a license and who doesn't need a license. And we gave you one. Luckily, Bruin has made that a little bit harder to exercise for them, but here we are. So what do we want to do?
Richard:
Well, and it's a real problem. I talk to folks who are Texans. Let's say they're going to Baltimore, Maryland and they want to take a firearm because guess what, Baltimore, Maryland's a dangerous place. And so it's not too big of a surprise though. Hey, guess what? They do not respect the second amendment. They don't respect individual's right to keep and bear arms. And so it leaves people less safe. We're looking at through the Trump administration, and I think we have some pretty interesting ideas on how this attack is going to go down, whether or not it's going to be successful or not, but we're Donald Trump straight out came out and said, Hey, if national reciprocity lands on my desk, I will sign it.
Emily:
Yes. So let's talk about why it works and what's going to happen. So there is this notion, and I think potentially without there ever being a law, we could have seen some sort of legal challenge arise that would say, you have to recognize my handgun license based on the full faith in credit clause. What is the full faith in credit clause?
Richard:
So we're talking about Article four, section one of the United States Constitution, and this is a provision in the United States Constitution that says, Hey states, you have to recognize each other's jurisdictions records. You have to recognize their
Emily:
Acts.
Richard:
Acts,
Emily:
Yeah. Judgments.
Emily:
So it makes sense. And we have lots and lots of jurisprudence that has grown up through this. I actually started to pull cases to show y'all so we could talk through it, but it's pretty boring, so I won't subject you to that. But essentially, driver's licenses, everyone agrees that is something that is a state record such that it needs to be recognized through full faith and credit marriage licenses. We have actually a pretty recent Supreme Court case from 2016 that says, adoptions must be recognized. Judgments coming out of other states must be recognized. But some things don't need to be hoisted upon another state. So for example, if I am, okay, alright, I'll give you an example. Let's say that I am driving my car in Texas and in Texas I have my car tinted as dark as is legally allowed here. And then I drive into another state who says, aha, that tent is too dark. Well, I don't get to say, but it's legal in Texas.
Richard:
Full faith and credit of the window tent.
Emily:
Right? Exactly. No, even though that was,
Richard:
Although I like that.
Emily:
I hate the dark time windows. I'm very much a mom. I want to see what's going on everywhere around me. I want to see in your car too. I want to see whose kids are smacking each other around in your car so I can mom from the other car.
Emily:
So anyway, so I don't get to say, but this was legal when I drove out of Texas and now I'm in your state and you have to apply Texas law for me. No, absolutely not. And so the idea, I suppose from the anti-gun states is that carrying firearms is far less like having a valid driver's license. Far more like the state of Texas telling the state of New York, you have to let me be a cowboy in your state. I'm telling you what the criminal law is in your state, which of course we don't agree with. But that's I think essentially the argument. Now what happens though? So when it's legislated, what are we going to see?
Richard:
Yeah, I think whether it's legislated or if it comes through the court system, let's say I'm a license holder and I carry in a state that doesn't recognize it, and I'm charged with that gun crime. I think we have similar pads. I mean, one, the Trump administration signs this thing into law, immediately gets a lawsuit initiated by one of these anti-gun states. They're going to litigate full faith and credit. And I don't think that's materially different than, Hey, our individual challenging the constitutionality of their law or saying, Hey, guess what? You need to recognize my license based on full faith and credit. I kind of think we see similar arguments.
Emily:
Yeah, I do too.
Richard:
But ultimately why we have this kind of carve out, I hate that, but of this public safety part of the full faith and credit, except for we have the second Amendment to the United States Constitution. It's not like we have window tint. I mean, just pointing out, well, I
Emily:
Don't have a constitutional right to window tint.
Richard:
Well, you do. You absolutely do. According to Richard, oh, well, no, no, no, no, because the constitution doesn't tell us what we can do. It says, Hey, government, here's your express authorities, and you were restrained from doing everything else. Everything else that doesn't belong to the federal government, belongs to the states and the people. So I would say, yeah, you do have a constitutional right to window tint, but you see, all right. Is this coming anytime soon?
Emily:
Yeah,
Richard:
Yeah,
Emily:
Yeah, it is. I mean, I would imagine this is an easy win. It's an easy win for the Trump administration, and I think even given that the Republican House majority is going to be slimmer than we hoped, I do not see this being a problem for them to get across the finish line. So I mean, immediately, immediately, we're not even going to have to wait for the antique and states to arrest people anyway and litigate it immediately. You will see state's attorney's generals suing the Trump administration saying, you absolutely can't do this. This is a violation of state's rights. This falls into the public policy exception to the full faith and credit clause. Essentially, we get to determine not only is this an overstep, it's really infringing on our state's penal laws, but also it's for the public safety. We've made these laws. It's important to our public policy that we don't have to recognize people's constitutional rights. And then exactly your argument about, well, this isn't window tint, this is the second amendment. And this is so much more akin to a driver's license. Except it involves a fundamental, right. I mean, it's an easy one. I
Richard:
Hope. It's the kind of thing too though where, hey, if you're going to argue we get to do this because of public safety, the data is not on their side. We see self defenders save their lives, save other people all the time. We see tons of conflict not even occur because it's deterred. I think those arguments might actually go in favor of folks who want to carry,
Emily:
They already canceled. All the people who give that kind of data though, suppress the data.
Richard:
Yes. But alright, here's one pitfall. Let's say, alright, we wake up tomorrow, been signed into law, already been challenged in the courts. It's in place. We have national reciprocity. Jump in your RV drive aisle over the United States. See the beautiful country. What is a huge mistake even with states, with reciprocity, we see some problems.
Emily:
Yes. So that does not mean that you get to abide by your state's law. Again, let's go back to your driver's license, right? When you drive into another state, you don't get to be like, you know what? It's legal to go
Richard:
85 in Texas. 80.
Emily:
Yeah. The fastest speed limit on one certain highway in the entire country. So I get to do that in Louisiana too. No, no, no, no, no. Just because your license is recognized, you still must abide by the law in the state in which you are carrying just the same circumstance. Now, I have a Texas license. I want to go to Florida. I hit the ground in Florida. I don't get to open carry just because it's legal in Texas. I have to say, alright, you crazy Floridians, who don't believe in open carry. I'm going to conceal because I have to. Well, you don't want
Richard:
To be that test, have test case and try the constitutionality of that. No,
Emily:
No. Oh my gosh. If my name is ever attached to a watershed case, I think we're all in trouble. I don't want to be that person.
Richard:
Your name's not, no offense, but your name's not unique enough. You need to have a really, it seems like cool name, seem to make the headlines.
Emily:
Yeah.
Richard:
Don't see too many Smiths law.
Emily:
No Taylor
Richard:
Making case law Taylor
Emily:
Smiths.
Richard:
But yes, you have to abide by the law in the state that you're visiting. So we still see until these things are ruled, unconstitutional magazine capacity limits, certain features on firearms banned. So let's transform ourselves into this world where there is national reciprocity until those issues are litigated, ruled, unconstitutional. Unless you want to be the test case, you'll find yourself in hot water if you try to take your law with you to that other state. So you have to be very, very careful. But we hope you enjoy this discussion. If you did, consider subscribing, hitting that like button and help us fight the anti two A algorithm by sharing this video
Emily:
And please question, comment for us below. Until next time, for the arms tracks.
Credit: Armed Attorneys