Paul (00:05):
Concealed carry. There are millions of us in the United States who do that today, but there's also more of us who actually drive a vehicle. What we're going to talk about today is if you conceal carry and you drive and you're pulled over by law enforcement, what do you do? What are the things you do? What are the things you don't do that are going to keep you safe? And the law enforcement officers safe at the same time, we caught up with Captain Ben Gerstein at the Calie Parish Sheriff's Office to discuss what takes place when a concealed permit holder is pulled over for a routine traffic stop.
Captain Ben Angerstein (00:33):
Okay, so when the violation has occurred, the officer's going to indicate for the stop. The officer's going to use their discretion if they want the violator to stay in the vehicle and or have them exit out of the vehicle to a point that they designate.
Police Officer (00:48):
The reason you're being pulled over is you ran the stop sign at the last intersection. Do you have your driver's license with you, your proof of insurance?
Captain Ben Angerstein (00:53):
Yes sir. And I'm also a concealed carry holder.
Police Officer (00:55):
Okay. Is it on your person?
Captain Ben Angerstein (00:56):
Yes.
Police Officer (00:57):
Okay. Where is it located? On the person
Captain Ben Angerstein (01:00):
On my side.
Police Officer (01:00):
Okay,
Paul (01:01):
Let's keep it there. Don't make any movements for it. If you can go ahead and get your license. And at this point, the officer has seen nothing to make him suspect that anything other than the traffic stop is taking place here. And notice the driver has also complied with all of the officer's requests
Captain Ben Angerstein (01:14):
They're going to and or ask for their credentials, driver's license, registration, proof of insurance. And if they are a permit holder, they're going to ask for that permit as well. So it's best for them to go ahead and get all that documentation together ahead of time, keeping it in a designated location to present to the officer.
Paul (01:31):
And most stops, such as this one where the driver complies with the officer's standard request, the stop is pretty short lived.
Police Officer (01:37):
Okay, ma'am, everything came back clear. Do me a favor and just be more cognizant of your stop signs. It's particularly hazardous violation. Just make sure you stop all the way. Okay. Thank you. Alright, take care.
Paul (01:47):
While compliance is certainly the key, there are other elements that make an officer treat one traffic stop different than another.
Captain Ben Angerstein (01:53):
Well, people have to understand that these officers in these uniforms are human. They wake up every day, they put the uniform on to go out and serve and protect the public that they've sworn to do. When they are out patrolling their community, they're looking for violations and infractions of the law. And it could be anything from a moving violation to a theft to a shooting. It could be anything.
Paul (02:16):
And that can certainly change the complexion of the stop.
Captain Ben Angerstein (02:20):
Well, the officer's going to be looking for anything that's out of the ordinary excessive movement, reaching across the vehicle, reaching in the back of the vehicle, reaching into the center console, into the dash, the glove box.
Paul (02:33):
Remember, you can see everything you need to see at this point to make you feel safe. The officer cannot
Police Officer (02:41):
Driver. Yes sir. Keep your hands where I can see him and walk back to him up. Sat in my voice. Okay.
Paul (02:47):
Remember the officer has just seen some activity within the vehicle that is not common with most routine traffic stops.
Captain Ben Angerstein (02:52):
Well, if they are a concealed weapons permit holder, it's best to go ahead and keep it concealed on their person and advise the officer that they are a concealed weapon permit holder and the location of the weapon. They should not make any sudden movements towards that weapon.
Police Officer (03:07):
Do you have any weapons on you? Yes sir. Where's it located? My right. Walk back to the side of my voice. Take a step. Right. The reason why I'm pulling you out of the car is you're making a lot of movements in there. Just kind raise some red flags. Okay? Put your hands on my car.
Paul (03:23):
At this point, the officer will run a check on the firearm to make sure that it hasn't been stolen or used in a crime.
Police Officer (03:29):
Two 12, go ahead. Ten four. Alright, I'm going to secure this back in your vehicle. And
Paul (03:35):
Once the driver and the firearm are checked out and clear, they're free to go. Then there's always this guy,
Captain Ben Angerstein (03:43):
Non-compliance is being verbally resistant to what the officer is there to enforce. He's there to enforce a moving violation or any other type of investigatory. Stop where the vehicle that they are occupying may match the description of a felony violation and the officer's there to investigate if that is in fact that vehicle.
Police Officer (04:07):
I do. I'm Senior Corporal Tar with the CACI Repair Sheriff's Office. The reason you're being pulled over today is you didn't have your seatbelt on. I see you have it on now, but you didn't have it on a second ago. You sure? I'm positive. Okay. Alright. You're pretty nervous right now. Is everything all right? Yes sir. You sure? Yes sir. Alright. Any reason why you didn't have your seatbelt on? I didn't know that I didn't have it on.
Captain Ben Angerstein (04:31):
Cooperation is key if you're going to be verbally combative and argue with the officer, the officer's not there to argue. The officer's there to do his job to force the law and either give a warning or a citation. Will you have your driver's license with your proof of insurance?
Police Officer (04:47):
Yes sir. It's in my back pocket. Okay. I also have a firearm on my right hip. On your right hip? Yes sir. With carry permit. Alright, do me a favor, step out for a second. Okay. Keep your hands where I can see 'em.
Captain Ben Angerstein (04:57):
We want to keep the driver and any occupants keep their hands visible. Placing them onto the steering wheel. If it's a front passenger, placing them on the front dashboard. If it's a rear passenger vehicle, placing them up on the headrest of the seat in front of them.
Police Officer (05:12):
What's this all about?
Captain Ben Angerstein (05:13):
Come on man. I pay my taxes. Is this a lawful stop? So cooperation is
Police Officer (05:18):
Key. Hey, lemme see that other hand doing everything. Put your hand on your face where I can see it. Alright, walk backwards to me. Okay. This right now's not the time to argue about this. Spread your feet out.
Captain Ben Angerstein (05:36):
If you're going to be verbally combative and argue with the officer, the officer's not there to argue. The officer's there to do his job, to force the law and either give a warning or a citation.
Police Officer (05:48):
Lemme talk to you. You pulled over for a simple traffic violation and then you want to start being argumentative and you got a weapon on you.
Paul (05:55):
Sometimes it's the simple things when you have nothing to gain by being noncompliant. Why be noncompliant?
Captain Ben Angerstein (06:03):
According to the state statute governing the concealed weapon permit, it clearly states that when approached by law enforcement for any type of investigation or interaction for a lawful purpose, the permit holder is required to identify themselves as a concealed weapon permit holder. And they must present their credentials to the officer for verification and they must allow the officer to temporarily disarm them for safety.
Paul (06:31):
As the father and husband of people I care deeply for, I choose to carry a concealed handgun to further protect them and myself, I don't see that as being much different than the law enforcement officers who are sworn to protect us all. The simplest thing I can take from all this is to comply with all reasonable requests. Nothing good could come from two armed men arguing on the street. All of us have families to go home to.
Credit: Paul Glasco, Legally Armed America